"We definitely cannot drop the goals of affirmative action": a discussion with Dr. Carmen Neuberger, Gwendolyn J. Dungy and Joyce Smith - Panel Discussion

Black Issues in Higher Education, July 10, 1997

Countless studies have shown that what happens outside of classrooms plays a crucial role in whether students attend college and continue in college to graduation. High school guidance counselors, admissions officers and campus student service officers all play a part in matching the right student to the right campus and then making sure the students feel a part of campus life.

The three organizations that represent professionals who provide those services are headed by women who speak passionately about the obligations of their professions to the recruitment and retention of students of color in higher education.

What follows is part of a roundtable discussion they recently had with Black Issues In Higher Education. Dr. Carmen Neuberger is executive director of the American College Personnel Association. Gwendolyn J. Dungy is executive director of the National Association of Student Personnel Administrators. Joyce Smith is executive director of National Association of College Admission Counselors.

How will the changes in affirmative action policies affect the way your members do their work?

Smith: It's directly affecting our work [in admissions]. We have always held a firm belief that affirmative action practices are needed in the college transition process. As it pertains to students and their opportunities for access, it will greatly affect the color and class of who goes to college.

Dungy: There's a sea change because of what's going on in Texas and California - and I'm not sure if it's all negative. One positive piece I see in relation to our members is that it will give them an opportunity - not opportunity as much as an incentive - to really develop partnerships between secondary schools and colleges.

What we've done often is we waited until they get to our door and then we begin to work with students. But we have not taken as much advantage as we need to take in helping faculty and helping counselors work with students to prepare them for the admissions criteria they'll have to face. So, I think that is an opportunity.

We've got to have more creative ways of making sure of bringing kids into the college who don't necessarily do well on tests. We all know that taking a test, getting a score on an exam, does not predict necessarily who's going to be successful.

I think our people are going to have to take their philosophy - the idea that every student can learn and that one purpose of the institution is to nurture students - and take that philosophy and try to influence the rest of the college environment. But we also have legislators and we have a public to deal with here.

A lot of people think [that] people who had been admitted under affirmative action guidelines did not have the merit and I think that they begin to lose sight of why we're educating students. We're educating students to be responsible, we're educating them to be part of a democratic society. And I think our members - people who are in admissions, people who are in student personnel - are the people to try to educate about what our purposes are and the ideas.

Neuberger: I have to try to be optimistic as well to put the best face we can on something that has really been tough. I think that there are other ways. We definitely cannot drop the goals of affirmative action, which are to increase students of color at institutions. I believe we can do that, as the Department of Justice and [the] Education Department has suggested, by looking at students from deprived backgrounds.

But, we as an association are moving forward to implement affirmative action. We do not feel the California decision or Texas decision necessarily affects the rest of our states, and [those states] feel very strongly that they still need to do what they need to do until they're told legally they can no longer do that. So, we have our affirmative action goals for membership and we are continuing to critically and progressively pursue those.

Smith: I would just offer that I think we've gotten caught in some of the rhetoric about what affirmative action was supposed to address. And of late, there seems to be more reference to addressing past incidences of discrimination. But I think what people seem to be feeling most comfortable with is calling it "diversity recruitment" or "efforts to ensure diversity."

Our association also has reaffirmed its support of affirmative action in the college admissions process because we all know - [and] California is our test case - if you take race and other kinds of variables off of the college application, then you lose the ability to attract disadvantaged students. We just have some huge challenges ahead but I know our association has reaffirmed its position in support of affirmative action in the college admissions process.

Dungy: NASPA has surveyed its members to see what assistance they may need in light of the fact that there may be some retrenchment in [the] commitment to affirmative action. So while NASPA remains committed, it's asking members what kind of professional development they need.