Staying afloat

Kurdish Life, Wntr, 2002

How will they affect individual and the state? "There are grave mental and psychological problems. A great revolution of conscience, ethics and culture is needed. People need a revolution of conscience in order to understand the sufferings and love. How can be transition from the culture of blood to the culture of love. How can the problems arising from separationism, clans, tribe and nationalism? What is experienced in Palestine is this. But it is possible in the Mesopotamian culture. The olds say about it suffering an ordeal for 40 years. My life of 40-50 years is a suffer of ordeal. It is difficult for you to sense it. I suffer. Man cannot have strength until there is a revolution of conscience and heart. How does. Ocalan bear these conditions? Its secret lies in the great revolution of conscience. There are a lot of examples of break-down in captivity. For example Yildirim Beyazit could not endure the captivity conditions. I neither cried nor complained, neither cursed nor pleaded. I have reminded myself of Socrates. What does it mean, a Socrates-stance in the 21st century? It should be analyzed."

Another striking aspect: your statements about the legitimate defense. How should the legitimate defense be interpreted, how should its reflection be? "It is necessary for the legitimate defense forces to be able to secure peace and democratic unity within the four neighboring states. Even the most modest peace needs the most sound and powerful legitimate defense. It has to be able to prepare a detailed plan. The only opportunity for peace and democratic solution is the legitimate defense being able to resist against all attacks. I repeat: It is in effect for the four states. It is necessary to study civil society in detail and a political study depending on the alliance of democratic forces. The peace and the democratic solution will be secured by non-governmental organizations and democratic forces.

You say about your latest analysis as being able to overcome Marxism: "I think so. Some may criticize but it is not important. In fact there may be a useful debate. I put man, law and politics on scientific bases; I make it clear-cut. You should analyze religion, mythology and literature. You should have a strong consciousness of history. You should have a consciousness of history in order to taste even bread. You should know history and sociology well. If you do not know them, you will not able to enjoy the tastes of bread, family, friendship, social relations, in fact of nothing, even of life. I have experienced it and analyzed in practice. I hope that they understand."

Has your peace line been understood sufficiently? Because the peaceful discourse may be misunderstood especially in Turkey: "I have no doubt that peace is not weakness but strength. I consider the demagogic statements uttered in the name of "sacred motherland-flag-state" fascist lies. I believe that the most consistent patriotism is to respect all cultural identities and institutions. I am sure that those who want to be most useful to their nations should respect all cultures as well as theirs. At the beginning of the 20th century Kurds and Turks made national liberation wars against imperialism. Whatever their deficiencies or causes, what is important is that they could not establish the democratic system and free unity together. Their mission is to succeed it at the beginning of the 21st century. This will lead Turkey to be the leader of the Middle East, Caucasus, Balkans and Middle Asia."