Teresa Heinz Kerry: from scripted to mold breaking, the role of first lady has varied dramatically over the years. As the race for first lady began to heat up, Donna Karan and Ingrid Sischy checked in on the 21st-century candidate

Interview, Nov, 2004 by Donna Karan, Ingrid Sischy

INGRID SISCHY: Let's set the scene for our readers, so they know at what point we're at in this historic election. The Democratic National Convention has just finished. You and your husband, John Kerry, the Democratic nominee to be the next president of the United States, are now crossing the country on the Believe in America whistle-stop train tour, campaigning for the big day. What's it like?

TERESA HEINZ KERRY: The people have been unbelievable.

IS: What are you seeing?

THK: What I'm seeing is a more eager, fired-up, hopeful version of the things I sensed in a quieter way during the primary. People are open vocally; their eyes glitter. We're getting a lot of older people, and a lot of older women. They say things to me like, "Thank you for being yourself. Thank you for saying what you're saying. Don't let anybody change you." But the other thing that's interesting is that the young people, too--the ones who are 14, 15, 16 years old--are telling me I'm a role model. Boys and even some men are saying that! I ask myself why a man would say that to me, and then I begin to think about the fact that so many people feel disenfranchised these days. People want somebody to say, "Shove it!" Even though some of them think of the phrase as meaning something other than I did when I used it [to a reporter in Boston on the eve of the Democratic convention], which was more an expression of "Stuff it," there are a whole lot of people out there, regardless of what party they belong to, who have had this feeling and want to get it off their chests.

IS: It is clear that you're not going to let anyone control you. That's something that says a lot about your husband--that he chose a partner who exercises her right to express herself.

THK: When the media ask me "Who are you going to be like as first lady, Hillary Clinton or Laura Bush?" I say, "Neither." Give me a break. I'm 65 years old. I'm a grown-up woman, and I am who I am.

IS: It is exciting for people that you seem to be such a 21st-century person. You could feel the joint go nuts at the Democratic convention when you said something like, "Some have called me opinionated. My hope is that one day women, instead of being labeled "opinionated," will be called"--

THK: "Smart and well informed." I'll tell you something. When I wrote that line I was thinking about my mom. I wanted to emphasize that the experience and knowledge of women are hugely undervalued today and that it's very important, not just in government but in our daily lives. So I said that it's long past due that the voices of women from around the world be heard in full and at last. That's a message that goes way beyond politics, and that's what has really shaken the foundation of some of these right-wing guys. When we talk about "family values," I say that means enabling women to be good parents, because some women go through hell and just can't make it. Be it through the church, through the community, through public policy, or individually, we have to make sure that women can be good parents and that if they're too young to know how to be a good parent, that they be given the opportunity to learn. Then you begin to take away the sanctimonious boloney of "family values," and you begin making it possible for people to actually bring some value to families.

DONNA KARAN: As a powerful woman dealing with the amount of press you're dealing with, do you feel that the press treats you fairly? Or do they have an attitude of "Well, she's powerful, she's rich. What does she know about these issues?"

THK: I don't honestly know because I try not to read a lot of this stuff, good or bad. For one thing, I'm working, so I try to save my energy. But it's important to remember that anyone or anything that seeks to change things will be seen as threatening by some people. I don't go out there trying to threaten anybody. I talk about my life, my values, the world, about all the things we have in common, and how we can work out our differences.

IS: That makes me think of the line Bruce Springsteen wrote in his recent editorial in The New York Tunes: "The country we carry in our hearts is waiting."

THK: That's a beautiful line, and that's what I've been witnessing at all the train stations we've stopped at. I mean, people jump along the train as it's moving, sometimes with babies in their arms! It's a little frightening, actually, but that's how desperate or hopeful or excited or all of those they are.

DK: You've talked quite a bit about how your youth in Africa has affected your worldview. In particular, your experience of living under a dictatorship seems to have tuned your antenna to what happens in overcontrolling situations.

THK: Right. You lose freedom! You can't speak openly. In a dictatorship you learn what propaganda and disinformation are, and how they're done. Whether it's put forth by the right or the left, propaganda is propaganda--and it's very scary. I was talking to my brother the other day, and he repeated a quote to me, which is that a dictatorship is a lie in action. Having lived under lies in action, you can really understand the dangers of propaganda.