Michael Jackson: decades before all of the charges and countercharges, he was a pint-size singer with a big dream

Interview, Feb, 2004 by Brett Ratner

"Forget your personal tragedy. We are all bitched from the start and you especially have to be hurt like hell before you can write seriously. But when you get the damned hurt, use it--don't cheat with it. Be as faithful to it as a scientist--but don't think anything is of any importance because it happens to you or anyone belonging to you."

Those words of advice, quoted in Robert Evans's The Kid Stays in the Picture, were given to F. Scott Fitzgerald by Hemingway, some 70 years ago. They are as relevant today as ever.

Speaking of life's desires, hurts, and euphoria! It ain't easy being a genius: You do pay the price, not unlike Mozart, who will be remembered far longer than Napoleon. Michael Jackson understands this irony. No one I have ever met in my life has had such passion and love for entertainment. His work, brilliance, and vision will be remembered far longer than any of those who now think of him harshly.

Michael and I have shared many a day, week, and month together. Our relationship is based on our love of films. We have watched many films together, and our personal favorite that we enjoy most is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory! A few months before the latest drama, he and I were on a little vacation. In the past he has often put a video camera to my face and asked me questions. This is what Michael does with his friends: He becomes a scientist and dissects them through questions in order to learn. Many times he has asked me how my childhood dreams became a reality, about why I wanted to become a director. So I decided it was time to hear from him about his childhood dreams.

After my interview, I went out and bought all the records he mentioned and listened to them, understanding a little more about Michael. What you are about to read is a very private and personal conversation between two friends.

BRETT RATNER: Do you have a mentor or someone who inspired you?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah, I do: Berry Gordy, Diana Ross, Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, James Brown, Jackie Wilson.

BR: And what did you learn from them?

MJ: I learned a lot from them--about how to be a visionary, how to be creative, how to be persistent, how to be determined, how to have a will of iron and to never give up no matter what. You know?

BR: What was your first job in the music industry, and how did you get it?

MJ: First job, probably ... Gee, I don't remember back that far. I was around 6 years old. Maybe it was Mr. Lucky's. I think it was a club--yeah, Mr. Lucky's. We performed there.

BR: And how'd you get the job?

MJ: I don't know; my father would know. I was too little.

BR: What was your first break and the first great thing that ever happened to you?

MJ: The real big break was when Motown signed us. We auditioned in Detroit, and Berry Gordy invited all our favorite stars that we saw as kids to this little town in Indiana: Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, the Temptations, and Stevie Wonder--everybody was there. And it was next to this indoor pool at this huge mansion, marble everywhere. We performed, and they just went crazy. They loved it. And [Gordy] says, "Boys, you're signed."

BR: Really?

MJ: Yeah.

BR: And you remember that day?

MJ: Oh, I remember it.

BR: What elements of your job make you want to go to work every day?

MJ: I want to work every day--just the idea of creating worlds. It's like taking a canvas, an empty canvas, you know, a clean slate. They give you paint, and we just color and paint and create worlds. I just love that idea. And having people see it and be awe-inspired whenever they see it.

BR: What qualities of yours helped you get where you are today?

MJ: Faith and determination. And practice.

BR: Right. Practice makes perfect. What would you have done differently in your career if you knew then what you know now?

MJ: What would I have done differently? Let me see ... Practice more.

BR: Practice more?

MJ: I practiced a lot.

BR: You practiced a hell of a lot! [Jackson laughs] But you would have practiced more? [Jackson nods] What's your greatest lesson learned?

MJ: Not to trust everybody. Not to trust everybody in the industry. There're a lot of sharks. And record companies steal. They cheat. You have to audit them. And it's time for artists to take a stand against them, because they totally take advantage of [artists]. Totally. They forget that it's the artists who make the company, not the company who makes the artists. Without the talent, the company would be nothing but just hardware. And it takes a real good talent that the public wants to see.

BR: What are some of your favorite albums?

MJ: My favorite albums would be Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite, Claude Debussy's greatest hits, which is, you know, "Claire de Lune" and "Arabesque" and The Afternoon of a Faun. I love Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, James Brown's Live at the Apollo, The Sound of Music [soundtrack]. I love Rodgers and Hammerstein. I love the great show-tune writers very much, and I love Holland-Dozier-Holland from Motown--they were geniuses. So many great writers. So many great ones.