Robert Gober - Interview

Interview, June, 2001

BOB GOBER TALKS WITH DAPHNE FITZPATRICK AND ALLISON SMITH

THE ART WORLD CHOSE HIM TO REPRESENT AMERICA TO THE WORLD. GOOD MOVE

In May of last year Robert Gober was selected by a peer review process to create the official United States exhibition for the 49th Venice Biennale in Italy, which is on view from June 10 until November 4. The project is co-organized by the Art Institute of Chicago and the Smithsonian's Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden. For the United States Pavilion, the artist produced an entirely new body of work specifically for the exhibition, including six sculptures, three unique etchings, one photograph and an artist's book. As this new work was being completed, Gober spoke at his studio in Peconic, New York, with Daphne Fitzpatrick and Allison Smith, two colleagues intimate with his work. It's a conversation that offers a revealing glimpse into the process of re-creating material facts from the everyday world and, subsequently, learning to recognize the possible meanings embedded within his highly personal, deeply idiosyncratic archeology of contemporary life.--James Rondeau and Olga M. Viso, U.S. commissioners, 49th Venice Biennale

DAPHNE FITZPATRICK: OK Bob, earlier today in the car ride out to your studio we talked about all the different topics that we think your upcoming show at the Venice Biennale is about, the key things.

ROBERT GOBER: OK.

DF: There was "American," then there was "brutality," "plainness," "the sea," "silliness," "humor," "debris," "sculpture," "plastic," "anger," "fear" and "bigotry." Are those last three all one related topic?

ALLISON SMITH: I think they are all one.

DF: And then there was "solitude," "reverie" and "beauty."

HG: Sounds like a great show!

DF: I get this feeling that the show as a whole is kind of a portrait of America now. And I'm wondering if that was intentional, and did the responsibility of representing America at the Venice Biennale make you think about that?

RG: Yeah, I think it did, both intentionally and unconsciously.

DF: The other thing I wonder about when I look at all these things is whether this is a negative portrait of America.

RG: What do you think?

DF: Well, there's a lot of negative there, and then there're some shining good things, as well. Like the image of the American flag, the Bill Bradley quote about delighting in people's differences rather than fearing them, and The New York Times clipping, which seems to be about freedom of expression.

RG: I also think having the leisure to contemplate items like Styrofoam and plywood, to think philosophically about objects, is a very positive kind of thinking.

AS: Even in the photos and sculptures based on garbage, there seem to be these traces of real pleasure.

RG: In the artist's book [an element of the installation that will be distributed in Venice along with the catalogue], all of the found trash photographed on the beach is gleaming in the sun. In a way, the plastic junk at the shoreline became a stand-in for sea glass because there is no more sea glass; it's all plastic now.

DF: And the photos of the balloons?

RG: The balloons are all about optimism. Stand-ins for human bodies and lungs and things that are full of air and shiny and ephemeral.

DF: But the balloons are caught between rocks and one is caught in a thicket. There is some dark stuff there.

AS: Yes. But even more than the dualities of dark and hopeful, or negative and positive, what really got me thinking were the fragments of the newspaper articles [which are incorporated in the images in the artist's book and used as sculptural elements in the actual installation]. In each case, there's a story or a situation where your first response is pretty clear. But then there's always something that undercuts that. You have a story of a man who in an act of love for his brother will cut off his own hand. Or, in another article, we must reconsider someone who could be seen as homophobic. I think what the work asks us to do is to look deeper into all these scenarios, beyond a negative portrayal or stereotype.

DF: We wondered if you might want to say anything about how you feel about being an American right now?

RG: No, I don't think so. No.

AS: OK. One of the images that I also found both potent and hopeful was the one of the hand cradling and protecting the letter to the editor. But first I want to go back to something I thought was interesting about the Bill Bradley quote you use in one of the sculptures. I thought it was so great to talk about the idea of fear instead of hatred--it's something I kept seeing again and again in the stories you present. The incredible fear that seemed to spark those crimes.

RG: I understand. Don [Moffett, the artist] had a great reading of the Bill Bradley quote. He said he thought it was Bill Bradley's vision of the ideal citizen.

DF: Sometimes tolerance is so hard. I remember I was in the grocery store out here [on Long Island] during the summertime once buying beer with my friends. I put the beer on the counter and the young checkout girl was all flustered, and she kept looking at me and looking at the beer. I thought she was trying to figure out if I was old enough to buy the beer, but she finally said, "Well, are you a boy or girl?" And I was like, "You know, not every girl has to look like you!"