Isaac Hayes And Busta Rhymes - composer; rap singer - Interview

Interview, July, 2000 by Ray Rogers

THE DON OF THE OLD SCHOOL MEETS THE LEADER OF THE NEW, AND WHAT THEY SAY MIGHT SURPRISE YOU

Shaft, "the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks," is back. Can ya dig it? Samuel L. Jackson stars as the original Shaft's nephew in John Singleton's remake of Gordon Parks' cult classic Shaft, and Busta Rhymes, who's just released his third solo album, Anarchy (Elektra), plays his right-hand man. While the 1971 landmark film blazed a path for African-American filmmakers and actors, its suave, street-symphony soundtrack inspired generations of musicmakers. Isaac Hayes, once again, provides Shaft with the beats and grooves to accompany his every smooth move. We caught up with the two of them in the studio where Hayes was laying down the new score to the action-packed update.

RAY ROGERS: When did you guys first meet?

ISAAC HAYES: Two years ago, Busta came by Kiss FM, my morning show, and fed everybody. [laughs] I bet you forgot about that.

BUSTA RHYMES: We were just diggin' in, getting busy. Word up. It was flavorful.

RR: Since the first Shaft came out there's been an emergence of a black middle-class in the States. The economy is now at an all-time high. What kind of effect has that had on inner-city life, where Shaft takes place?

IH: I'm from the inner city, and things have changed since the original Shaft came out. African-Americans can spend money now. And they can turn out in droves to a film like Shaft. Guys used to have to scrape together nickels and dimes to go see a movie.

BR: I think that this sort of film plays a significant role for black people in the culture right now, especially the new generation of young men and women who weren't around to experience the original Shaft. From an inspirational standpoint, it can do a lot for kids today to be exposed to a black man like Shaft. As for my role, I felt honored to represent the dude who rides with his man to the end.

RR: When you first saw Shaft, what kind of effect did it have on you?

BR: I think it was in '78 or '79, and I was probably in like second grade, been babysat by my Aunt Hyacinth in East Flatbush, Brooklyn, and her oldest son, who used to get all these tapes like Superfly and Shaft that he would watch in the crib. He'd have his boys over there smoking weed, and he wouldn't let me come in the room, but they wouldn't close the door all the way, and I would watch from outside. And what I bugged off most about the movie was the fact that the black dude was winning. For me that was a big deal.

RR: Shaft was one of the first major movies directed by an African-American and its success paved the way for many more, from Spike Lee to John Singleton.

IH: It changed the face of cinema. It saved Hollywood, to tell you the truth. [laughs] Melvin Van Peebles did a movie called Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song 9711 and it showed Hollywood that there was a market for cinema in the black community. And Hollywood said, if that's the case, let's do a film with a black leading man, with a black director and black composer. So, that was the beginning of Shaft. It opened the doors for a lot of other black films and the era they call blaxploitation. John Singleton had the presence of mind to realize that it was time to do that again. I'm certain he wants his little boy to see Shaft for himself, a black man doing his thing. And winning. It was wonderful to see John pay some props to the original Shaft, Richard Roundtree, and the original director, Gordon Parks, in his script.

RR: What kind of significance is it that this new Shaft is a police officer?

IH: Some officers see the law broken and they will kind of stick to the books. Well, Shaft had his law. He had principles that he lived by, and he wouldn't bend them. He's got a bulldog mentality. I think audiences will be satisfied with how Shaft handles the system.

BR: Presenting Shaft as a cop was especially important for the kids, because cops don't give kids much reason to respect them. I ain't trying to make it no racial thing, but when you see this film, you get a picture painted of how all cops should deal with situations.

RR: Did the music of Shaft influence you?

BR: The beat had a bounce that I was able to rhyme to. At the time I was hearing it and seeing it, hip-hop was just starting. I was starting to understand emceeing, and that beat just sounded like one of those beats you would have heard Grand Master Flash back-spinning and just cutting it. [sound of Busta miming the "Theme from Shaft"] So when I heard the beat, that "wah wah" and the rhythm, the way the bass line was being played, that was it for me. From time to time we try to sample from it--but you don't tamper with something that's classic. I think a lot of other MCs respect it like that, too. So it was important for me, just as a hip-hop historian. We had no choice but to go back to those records, find a nice little eight-bar instrumental and repeat that on two turntables so you could rap. Those songs had a major significance in the birth of hip-hop.