Salt-n-Pepa's unshakable conviction

Interview, Oct, 1995 by Mary Wilson

MARY WILSON: Maybe I should start this conversation by asking about your new song and the concept for your new video, which Interview just sent me.

CHERYL JAMES [SALT]: The album was created by different female artists who all contributed songs [like Melissa Etheridge, Annie Lennox, Patti Smith, Queen Latifah, Sinead O'Connor, Vanessa Williams with Me'Shell NdegeOcello, and groups like Come and Luscious Jackson]. The proceeds from the album are going to women's organizations [through the Shirley Divers Foundation for Women] that deal with things like physical and sexual abuse against women, AIDS, breast cancer, and many other things. When they asked us if we wanted to be down with the project, we were trying to think of a song we could do for it. I asked the organization if we could just use "Ain't Nuthin' but a She Thing" for the title of our song and they said sure. We ended up shooting a video for it with Ellen von Unwerth, which looks very different from anything we've ever done before. The song is about how this ain't a man's world. How, if you put your mind to it and believe in yourself, you can accomplish anything that a man can.

MW: I don't know if you guys have read my book Supreme Faith, but I was in an abusive situation. And I wrote a lot about what that was like. Thank God we're friends now, but I remember in my situation I would call for help and nobody would come. The courts and the policemen said, "Well, that's a civil thing."

CJ: Almost like it was acceptable.

MW: Yeah. And it's nice that now women are beginning to talk about it, because it's amazing how much of it still goes on. In your video you actually show women who are more powerful than men, who are in control, and who fight back.

CJ: I remember this women's rally I went to. One of the speakers asked how many women had been harassed or abused sexually in their life? There were thousands of women in the audience, and almost every one of them raised her hand. It was unbelievable. But a lot of women who are in abusive situations are frightened and scared because they feel threatened. I think the key to changing the kind of abuse and inequality women have had to live with is that we have to talk about it with one another, and be there for one another and support one another. Because it's the not talking about it that makes it able to happen. Women have to get over that fear.

MW: So now that you're in a position to do things like this album, I'm wondering how you feel about that kind of responsibility. Because, like you, I also do a lot of work on behalf of AIDS organizations and in the fight against sexual abuse. And I'm a spokesperson for the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation and am involved with gun control. But I remember, when the Supremes started out, hardly any singers were involved in social causes or even product endorsements, and we were one of the first groups to start doing those types of things. On the one hand, we endorsed products like Coca-Cola and Arid. But we also endorsed the Heart Association. Later we got involved in some politics. We endorsed Hubert Humphrey [in the 1968 Presidential race against Richard Nixon]. And as we started getting involved in the things we believed in, I realized, God, being in the position I'm in makes me able to do more of what I want to do as an individual. Not for the money, but because you care about something.

CJ: I guess it's like that with Salt-N-Pepa. We have a strong following that ranges from little kids to adults. A lot of people approach us to endorse things - like a certain brand of beer or whatever. Even if we might, you know, have a beer now and then [laughs], we would never endorse a product like that, tell people, "This is the way to go." We would turn that kind of endorsement down, no matter what the money was.

SANDI DENTON [PEPA]: Because people look up to us. Teenagers look up to us. We all have little sisters and cousins who look up to us, and we see what they go through. So we have to be an example. A lot of artists come into this business and they don't see things that way. But as you get older - and now that we also have children - your conscience starts working on you. You have to give your fans and your children something that they can use in life.

MW: So you both have children?

CJ: All three members of the group do.

MW: But there are only two of you on the phone, right?

CJ: Yeah. [laughs] Sandi and my lives have been crossed, but there's a third member of Salt-N-Pepa called Spinderella [Deidra Roper].

MW: How old are your children?

SD: My son is five years old. His name is Tyran.

CJ: My daughter, Kerrin, is four. And Spinderella's daughter, Christi, is three.

MW: I didn't start having my children until I was thirty. By that time, the Supremes had - well, we hadn't disbanded, but Diane [Diana Ross] had left. I was trying to hold the group together and I found R really hard, because at one point I had three children on the road and my mother and my husband and my adopted son. It was like a little circus. [laughter] This was also the time when the hits hed slowed down. I want to ask you a question related to that. You're on top today. I don't think anybody can touch you. And I know what that feeling is like. It's a wonderful feeling.