The urge for Serge - interview with rock singers Beck and Steve Shelley - Interview

Interview, April, 1997 by Alison Powell

Sonic Youth and Beck on Serge Gainsbourg? That's right

By the time he died in 1991, louche French singer, songwriter, actor, and filmmaker Serge Gainsbourg was a national treasure at home, yet his following in the States remained more cult than mass culture. His inspired Mends of jazz, pop, and world-music influences have, however, had a major Impact on other musicians - these days more than ever. Now with the release of three new compilations of his work - Comic Strip, Couleur Cafe, and Du Jazz Dans Le Ravin (Mercury) - culled from decades of material, it seems that his dizzying genius, which for so long cast him as an outsider among his peers, is right in step with a '90s brand of cool. We spoke with two contemporary pop explorateurs - who, not coincidentally, happen to be among Gainsbourg's greatest devotees - Steve Shelley of Sonic Youth and Beck, about why this icon of the swinging '60s was also a model for music's future.

Talking Serge With Sonic Youth's Steve Shelley

ALISON POWELL: Is there a story behind your discovery of Serge Gainsbourg?

STEVE SHELLEY: Years ago we were in France when Serge was still alive, and we would see this old guy on the video station. We could tell there was something really bizarre going on and that it was much more fun and subversive than Johnny Hallyday. Little did we know there were three decades worth of recorded material by this guy and a whole legacy of acting and directing. From what people told us, he was somewhat of a [Charles] Bukowski type over there.

AP: Nicotine stained -

SS: And heavily juiced, and propositioning Whitney Houston on national television. There was this real innocence for Sonic Youth, or for myself, in discovering him. I compare it to first hearing about rock 'n' roll, and hearing rumors about bands, because we couldn't speak the language and we couldn't understand the printed word. We'd hear things from sources like someone's friend in Switzerland or some guy in England, because, though European pop stars cross borders easily there, Serge really didn't seem to come here at all.

AP: So he was a mythical character that you pieced together.

SS: Exactly, and we're still doing it. There are posters of him in our studio from a movie we've never seen. It could be the worst movie ever, but we found the most beautiful poster for it in Japan.

AP: Why do you think he didn't translate very well to the States?

SS: Maybe at the time Serge was sort of behind the trends, maybe he was copying things that had just happened. I really haven't found anyone who was there and loved it at the time who isn't also French.

AP: What makes him relevant now?

SS: At this point, we re so post-everything that I think we can really appreciate the way he put together all those cultures and sounds and words and feelings. It's much the same way that we appreciate Beck right now. He's someone who's collecting things and throwing them together in a new style.

AP: Beck said you're the one who turned him on to Serge a couple of years ago.

SS: Yeah. We were on tour together and every night after the show we'd climb on the bus and have these wine-and-cheese parties and all watch fuckin' pretentious Gainsbourg videos. [laughs]

AP: What's Gainsbourg's appeal for you?

SS: I'm not into him for the kitsch value. What interests me is that he made such amazing sounds, and that takes me back to dealing with things simply on an aural level. Also the way he used recording studios and used different genres of music is really impressive. He went from jazz to Latin and mambos to doing '60s pop. He did reggae with Sly [Dunbar] and Robbie [Shakespeare], and Rita Marley. He really went out there in all these different places and was probably the first French artist to do that.

AP: There's an academy in France dedicated to keeping the language pure, and when one listens to songs like "Requiem Pour un Twisteur" or "Ford Mustang" one wonders whether he wasn't the reason they started it.

SS: But I love the way he used English - or any language other than French - in his songs. That's part of the charm. He was really playing around with words, and I think once I get to understand or translate some of the French lyrics, I'll not just find double and triple entendres, but perhaps they work tenfold. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but it just seems like he was a lyrical as well as musical genius.

AP: Do you have a favorite song or a favorite era?

SS: I go through phases with it. But oddly enough, being a drummer, I especially like this one album called Percussions.

AP: Is there anything about Serge that's had a tangible influence on you?

SS: Oh sure, but I haven't started drumming in French yet.

Why Serge Beckons Beck

ALISON POWELL: Tell me what you thought when you first heard Serge Gainsbourg.

BECK: I've always been interested in entertainers in other countries who aren't acknowledged here - for example, the Frank Sinatra of Chile. So I had that kind of appreciation for Serge. After a while I came to realize that he's definitely up there with anyone we have in our pantheon of greats. He's just quintessentially French. What really endeared him to me was the way he took the '50s-American-hipster attitude and turned it around and made it something else.