Paris's ears are burning - tete-a-tete between fashion designer Sonia Rykiel and music producer Malcolm McLaren

Interview, Sept, 1994 by Marcelle Katz

Musical couturier Malcolm McLaren and designer Sonia Rykiel collaborate on a stylish new club hit

One day, the imperious French fashion designer Sonia Rykiel called music producer Malcolm McLaren with a request: "I want to sing." Unfortunately, McLaren had just completed recording his latest album, Paris, which will be released later this year in the U.S. by BMG. A nostalgic homage to the City of Light, the album of lilting chansons, featuring vocals by French screen legend Catherine Deneuve, is a far cry from McLaren's work with punk pioneers the Sex Pistols.

At Rykiel's behest, McLaren went back into the studio with the designer and recorded "Sonia Rykiel," a surprisingly hip dance song. The Rykiel track was first heard on the catwalk in Paris during the filming of Robert Altman's Pret-a-Porter, and a remix of the song has been added to the Paris CD released in Japan.

McLaren and Rykiel allowed me to listen in on a recent tete-a-tete held in the hushed gloom of the designer's atelier in Paris. Each blessed with a combustible combination of stubbornness and style, these two redheaded divas matched wits on a variety of subjects, from the prosaic to the profane. MARCELLE KATZ

SONIA RYKIEL: Mr. McLaren.

MALCOLM MCLAREN: Yes, darling.

SR: I know your music, and you've seen my clothes, but I think that you actually know more about me than I do about you. Someone like you, who is so clever, when you see my clothes, you understand me.

MM: Well, Sonia, my gut instinct is that you must have had many lovers. You are a woman who immediately understands sex. [silence] That's what I assume, looking at your clothes and your face.

SR: You know, it's funny you should say that, because an editor recently asked me to write an erotic book. I told him that I could write about anything but eroticism. The next day, the contract was on my desk, and I signed it. I can't believe it myself.

MM: So, am I right or wrong?

SR: Ummm... I haven't had a lot of lovers, but I've had some, of course. When you're creative, you need to have people around to lighten the heaviness.

MM: And why is your hair so red? It's not natural, is it?

SR: I have to touch it up. But when I was born, my hair was so red everyone thought my head was bleeding.

MM: What about this whole black thing? When did you start wearing black all the time?

SR: After I had children, because I got so fat. I never wanted to be a designer. I wanted to have at least ten children. But black became my uniform, my signature. I do actually like lots of color. You've seen me wearing bright scarves.

MM: But you're wearing black today, and when I look in the Sonia Rykiel store, all I see is black.

SR: It's a case of not tampering with a myth. I always say to women, if you don't know how to wear black, don't wear it at all. With black, you've got to have an attitude or the dark can kill you.

MM: When I came here to Paris last year, I would walk past your shop every day because I was living just up the road. Your name was synonymous with black, and I felt an existential association. So I thought you must be the Queen of Black. I was working on this album [Paris], and my assistant suggested that I should come see you because my music might suit your show.

SR: I was so sad, though, because you didn't invite me to be your record.

MM: I never knew you wanted to sing. I was shocked. Your request to be on the record made me laugh.

SR: I wanted to sing with you, but I knew nothing. I was so interested to see the way you work, even to touch you. You were probably thinking, Why didn't this woman just stick to her atelier?

MM: You said, "If Catherine Deneuve can do it, then why can't I?" So I had to phone the record company, and they said, "What!! Sonia Rykiel wants to sing? Ridiculous! We've finished the album." They said it would be complete rubbish. They were so angry when I made them include your track in the second pressing.

SR: Yes, but it's fine now. I was completely astonished to enter into your world. I felt like a little bird flying around you. After you sang with me, I pushed you away because I wanted to sing instead of you.

MM: [laughs] I had to be a provocateur. But I think we made something charming, because the song is about both of us, not just me.

SR: My work is not just about clothes, you know.

MM: I know. I always thought of fashion as a marriage of painting and music, even back in the days when I worked with Vivienne Westwood. That's always driven me, to give [fashion] a raison d'etre beyond the nature of clothes--a philosophy.

SR: Yes, I always say that. If I don't have any real ideas to put into a dress, it will just fall down on the floor. The Rykiel woman is a nomad--a sophisticated nomad. I love the word sophisticated. I don't like natural. Natural is not interesting at all.

MM: When we made this record, you kept driving me crazy because you said it had to be upbeat. It was very important for your clothes. So it was the only song on this album that had any potential for the clubs. Everyone says the record's great, but they keep asking for the "Sonia Rykiel" song. Can you believe it?