So, you want to work on Wall Street?

IVY: When I think that I'm getting in the way of the people that I'm grooming, it's time for me to get out. When I don't feel that intellectual aggressiveness anymore-to solve the problem faster and more--competitively than my counterpart across the street--it'll be time to go.

THOMAS: I have a question, What do you fear most in your career?

DEAN: I don't fear anything. I mean, I don't have 'f-- you' money, but I don't fear anything.

THOMAS: Put it as a two-part question: How high do you want to go, and how high do you think you can go?

IVY: I know how high I want to go: As high as it goes, okay? But I have a concern that because I'm not part of the majority, and because I have a long career left and a huge amount of ambition, that there may be some sociological bias involved. That's my concern, and I fight hard about it every day. When people come in for a preinterview, and they want to tell me how smart they are, and this and that, I always encourage them to provide evidence of it. Prove it, document it for me, demonstrate the difference they have made in a situation and the difference they can make in the organization. I spend a lot of my day trying to do that, show evidence, and it's related to some of that concern.

THOMAS: I truly believe that I have the ability to run my firm, and I would want to. That's the first part of the question, but my answer to what I fear most in this business is what Craig alluded to. I am what I am. I'm black . . .

SHEPHERD: But you said that Wall Street was a meritocracy.

THOMAS: No, I said, 'theoretically'. . .

SHEPHERD (smiling): I stand corrected.

THOMAS: Absolutely. I know you jumped on me a little bit and I was going to clean it up. I know what the deal is. It's not a true meritocracy. It should be but it's not. My biggest fear is that I will not be able to achieve the level that I think I should--and would---if I had a pure shot at it, because of my race.

DEAN: I think everybody would love to have the opportunity to run their firms. I just don't think anybody would be totally truthful with you if they say otherwise. I do think that I could run my firm one day, and I'm not prepared to dismiss that right now. On the one hand, I can make the argument that that's a very naive assertion. On the other hand, I can see a very logical scenario that would get me there.

SHEPHERD: I don't know if I have ever really thought about running the firm that I work for. That's because I've always looked at those positions as being more stressful, and requiring more of a commitment of time, effort and energy than I really want to put in. I would like to believe that I could run it. I think I'm smart enough but as to whether I'd get the chance if I wanted it, I'm not clear about that, for the same sociological reasons the others have raised.

BE: Should your children follow you into this industry, do you think their experience will be much different from yours?

DEAN: It won't be a problem for my daughter to get recruited, but it gets much more complicated after that. Nobody has figured out how to retain and advance women or minorities on Wall Street. Nearly half of our entering analyst class is female. But the percentage of women who make up our entering associate class is less than 20%, meaning that women analysts are simply saying that they don't want to do this. A lot of minorities say the same thing. The real challenge for this industry is figuring out how to convince black kids and women that this is something that you should just kill yourself for over a 20-25 year period, and then think about what you're going to do when you reach 45. So am I optimistic that our kids, across the board, will be more enthusiastic and have a greater chance of making it in this business? Not really.