Plan for improvisation: an interview with Pete Seeger

Whole Earth Review, Winter, 1994 by Gaetano Kazuo Maida

PERHAPS NO ONE ELSE today personifies the spirit of persevering activism and the all-embracing heart of music like Pete Seeger.

Seeger is the author or co-author of "Turn, Turn, Turn," "If I Had a Hammer," "We Shall Overcome," and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone" (among so many other songs), and founder of the Weavers singing group and People's Songs and Sing Out! magazines. With his close friend Woody Guthrie, he helped to create and sustain the folk music revival. Decades before "world music" was a market category, Pete was learning African, Indonesian, Spanish, Russian, Caribbean, Irish, Hebrew, and African-American songs and singing them with audiences of all persuasions around the world. For the past twenty-five years he has also put a lot of energy into Clearwater, a wooden river sloop and grassroots environmental organization helping to restore the Hudson River. Now seventy-five, Pete has more than endured -- he has demonstrated how to adapt and change through five decades of public life without losing his integrity or optimism. .

This interview was conducted backstage at concerts in New York and Berkeley. -- GKM

G: You've been quoted as saying, "Once upon a time activists concentrated on trying to help the meek inherit the earth, but we realized that if the earth wasn't safe, it wouldn't be more than a garbage dump for the meek to inherit." When did you come to that, what was it that --

P: Actually it was a book called Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. That was really a turning point in my life. Funny, I'm an old readaholic and it's often books which have turned me around, changed my direction. I was about seven years old, barely a reader, and read a book about American Indians. Until I was about twelve, I wanted to live like an Indian. They had no rich, they had no poor, and life might have been hard and short and brutal at times, but at least it wasn't selfish in the way that modern life so often is. I don't think life has to be selfish but before we learn to share . . . well, that's what your magazine is about. Course, it's easier said than done. The socialist countries thought all you had to do was get rid of capitalism and now we see that certainly wasn't enough. You have to share information and in this modern world, information is power. Yet I think there's a good chance that within the next few decades all around the world, people will learn that sharing power can be the most fun. It's not the quickest thing if you're in a great hurry. On our boat we have a little sign saying: You can argue with the captain most of the time, but not all of the time. Because sometimes when the strong wind is blowing you've got to do something quick, you do exactly what the captain says immediately.

G: How would you describe the differences and similarities of the activism you see today and the activism you've logged so many miles with?

P: I would say that for many people it's confusing now, chaotic, and in one sense it's the job of artists and writers of all sorts to try and help people to see a thread of sense and logic through all this chaos. That's really what that song "The Common Thread" says: "There's a common thread, let's see if we can find one." Another thing is that beautiful phrase "think globally, act locally." People say, "I don't know what to work on, there are so many things that need working on." There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind, start right where you live, in your family, in your apartment house, in the block, wherever you are, you start. You can't work on everything all the time, so start where you are. But keep your ears open, keep your eyes open, and you'll find there are things going on in the world that you should know about. I do most of my singing up and down the Hudson now; I travel, but not as much as I used to. I really think the most important job I've ever done in my life has been up and down the Hudson.

G: Really? With all the things your banjo's done?

P: Well, I've had some exciting times. I took my family around the world and sang for big audiences in faraway places. I sang in Washington, DC for a quarter of a million people.... These are unforgettable, but at the same time, I really think what I've done in the Hudson Valley, working with young people like today [see the review of Clearwater, p. 43! is the most important thing I'm doing.

G: I know you're traveling less now, but I'm sure you meet a lot of people. Have you met anybody or any group that you find especially compelling? You've discovered many songs over the years . . .

P: I've been fascinated by the music of different parts of the world, especially when I find a song that may have some repetition or some easy words that people can join in on. There's a beautiful Indonesian lullaby that the Weavers used to sing, "Suliram," and recently I've been meeting people singing some of the modern songs out of Africa. Yesterday afternoon I sang one of them, from West Africa, I just put English words to it, but I'm convinced that African music has something very important to teach the entire world because the spirit of improvisation is very important. If you just play the notes that the expert puts down, that's not enough. I think jazz has something to teach the world. You plan, but plan for improvisation. I think that should be a slogan for economists, engineers, scientists, who plan, but plan for improvisation.