On evangelicals and interfaith cooperation: an interview with Tony Campolo by Shane Claiborne

Cross Currents, Spring, 2005 by Shane Claiborne

Tony Campolo is an ordained minister in the American Baptist Church and professor emeritus of Sociology at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania.

Shane Claiborne is a founder of the Simple Way Community in Philadelphia and a prominent Christian activist.

Introductory Remarks (Shane Claiborne)

I grew up around people who looked like me and thought like me, insulated from anyone that made me uncomfortable or challenged my assumptions. I cannot remember meeting anyone Jewish or Muslim growing up, and distinctly remember (much to my chagrin) being swayed from dating a lovely Catholic girl because she prayed to Mary. And then I went to Eastern College. I studied sociology with Tony. I met Jesus on the streets of Philadelphia, in his most distressing disguises. I was surrounded by people who stretched my vision of what it means to be Christian. In one of the evening sociology classes (which, as usual, flowed over until nearly midnight), I can remember hearing Tony say, "Being a Christian is about choosing Jesus and doing something incredibly daring with your life." Since then the Christian adventure has taken me to the extremes of wealth and poverty, from a ten-week stint in Calcutta working alongside Mother Teresa to a year spent in the verdant Chicago suburbs at the evangelical megachurch, Willow Creek. Most recently, I was led to Iraq as part of an interfaith peace team during the war. So I hold Tony responsible for much of this, as the Lover he has introduced me to and the Gospel he has taught me have wrecked my life and gotten me in a lot of trouble.

When a devout Muslim brother asked Tony and I to have this cross-generational dialogue about interreligious cooperation for an interfaith publication, we jumped on it. In an age when religious extremists of all faiths have perverted the conceptions of what our traditions teach, there seems to be another thing stirring. Many of us are refusing to allow the media and twisted images of our faith to define us. And though words like "evangelical" are up for grabs, we still consider it an important adjective to reclaim and an important community to restructure. Tony tackles many of these issues in more detail in his newest book Speaking My Mind.

Before we get started it seems critical to note that the word "evangelion" from which we derive our words "evangelical" and "evangelism" are ancient words that predated Jesus. They were words Jesus takes from the imperial lexicon and spins on their head. For instance, in 6 BC there was a saying inscribed around the Roman Empire that read: "Augustus has been sent to us as Savior ... the birthday of the god Augustus has been for the whole world the beginning of the gospel" ("evangelion"). The early evangelists were announcing another Gospel, proclaiming an allegiance to another Emperor and another Kingdom. When people ask me if I am an evangelical, I must make sure we have a proper understanding of the word. If by evangelical we mean one who spreads the Good News that there is another Kingdom and another Emperor, another economy and peace than Rome's, another Savior than Caesar ... then, yes I am an evangelical." So here we sit down together and have a cross-generational conversation on inter-religious cooperation, as evangelical Christians.

Shane Claiborne: Well, we've been asked to consider the possibility of evangelical Christians cooperating with people of different faiths. The place to begin seems to properly define what we mean by "evangelical." I offered my definition above. What's yours?

Tony Campolo: An evangelical is someone who believes the doctrines of the Apostle's Creed. That outlines exactly what we believe in detail. Secondly, an evangelical has a very high view of scripture though not necessarily inerrancy. And the third thing--we believe that salvation comes by being personally involved with a living resurrected Jesus. So I've defined evangelical in those three terms. There is a doctrinal statement, so that there is some content to what we believe. There is a source of truth, Scripture. And there is a personal relationship with Jesus.

SC: There are many evangelicals who find themselves lost amidst the current political climate. They find themselves outside the narrow issues that define conservatives and estranged from the shallow spirituality that marks liberals. Many seem to be thirsty for Christian social justice and peacemaking but cannot find a Christian community that is consistently pro-life, or that looks at war and injustice as spiritual issues.

TC: As we think about all of this we have to be aware of what has happened in this last election. Evangelicalism getting wedded to the any political party is like ice cream mixing with horse manure. It's not going to hurt the horse manure (i.e. the republican party, and I would say the Democrat Party is also horse manure so don't get the wrong idea), but it sure will mess up the ice cream.

SC: President Bush uses political and spiritual language interchangeably, referring to the ideals of America as the Light of the world that the darkness cannot overcome. He invokes God's blessing on a nation that has stepped far from the things that God blesses in the Beatitudes. I've met many evangelicals, particularly military families, who find their national and spiritual allegiance in conflict. I have met parents who lost their kids speak their anger that their children died thinking this was God's will. I have met soldiers who have knelt at the altar to ask forgiveness for what they did in Iraq. Recently I was talking to a woman who was very upset as I spoke about Iraq. She said she just wanted Muslim people to come to know the grace and love of Jesus. I told her I want the same thing. The question is how does that happen, and are we getting closer to that? What can we learn from the blood-stained pages of history--Constantine, the crusades, the Inquisition, the martyrs. Do you see evangelicals getting closer or further from interfaith dialogue?