On the record or off the record? How much should you say in an interview?

Communication World, March, 1995 by John M. Knox

Sensational journalism is not limited to British tabloids. Witness two journalistic flaps that developed within a week of one another in the U.S. First came the controversial broadcast of an interview with Kathleen Gingrich over the CBS television network. Mrs. Gingrich's son, Newt, is the newly elected speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives and second in line to the president of the United States. On the heels of the Gingrich interview came a published report of some supposedly "off the record" remarks made by U.S. First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton.

'Eye to Eye' didn't blink

Controversy brewed before and after the January 5, 1995 airing of CBS News' "Eye to Eye" with Connie Chung. Television station managers, journalism professors and men and women on the street debated the ethics: Is it right for CBS to broadcast remarks that were promised to remain between Gingrich and Chung?

During the "Eye to Eye" interview, the controversial exchange occurred as follows:

CHUNG: Mrs. Gingrich, what has what has Newt told you about President Clinton?

GINGRICH: Nothing, and I can't tell you what he said about Hillary. CHUNG: You can't?

GINGRICH: I can't.

CHUNG: Why don't you just whisper it to me, just between you and me?

GINGRICH: (Whispers) She's a bitch. About the only thing he ever said about her. I think they had some meeting, you know, and she takes over.

CHUNG: She does?

GINGRICH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But when Newtie's there, she can't.

At the conclusion of the taped segment, Chung made the following statement during her broadcast:

CHUNG: There's. been more talk about how Mrs. Gingrich came to tell us what she says is her son's five-letter opinion about the first lady than about her son's opinion itself. Mrs. Gingrich was sitting before three cameras and television lights, with a microphone on. It was clear that what she said would be broadcast.

Privacy or news?

There are codes among journalists, but the public relations creed is "there is no such thing as off the record." Chung's concluding remarks describe an obvious interview situation, including hot lights blaring and a lavaliere microphone clipped to Mrs. Gingrich's clothing. It is inconceivable that a woman now in the public eye was not given at least a short course in interviewing techniques prior to a session with one of the most noted journalists in the U.S. In this case, in fact, it was Mrs. Gingrich who offered, "I can't tell you what he said about Hillary," which raises the question of whether the mother of the most powerful leader of the Republican party in the U.S. was actually baiting the reporter in hopes that her remarks would be broadcast!

Furthermore, one could argue that the comments of the mother of the second in line to the U.S. presidency are news.

As Eric Ober, president of CBS News, said, "While broadcasting Mrs. Gingrich's comments may have been perceived by some as unfair, CBS News does not believe withholding those comments would have been appropriate."

The ensuing controversy following the "Eye to Eye" broadcast underscores the point.

Is anything off the record?

Less than a week following the Gingrich/Chung flap, another ethics controversy developed, again involving Mrs. Clinton, but this time the ethics of The New York Times were called into question.

The Times ran a page one story by Marian Burros that detailed a luncheon with Hillary Rodham Clinton. Burros and 10 other women who regularly write about the U.S. First Lady's social functions, style, gossip and personal advice attended the luncheon "in which Mrs. Clinton began by speaking off the record but later agreed to talk for publication," according to Burros.

Among other comments included in the Times story, Mrs. Clinton was quoted as saying, "I think I was naive and dumb, because my view was results speak for themselves." The story also reported that Mrs. Clinton said, "I am surprised at the way people seem to perceive me, and sometimes I read stories and hear things about me and I go 'ugh' I wouldn't like her either. It's so unlike what I think I am or what my friends think I am."

The following day, the Times was accused of breaching journalistic ethics by publishing comments that other luncheon guests said were off the record.

"It was clear, 100 percent off the record ... I was furious," said New York Post gossip columnist Cindy Adams. "I can't believe the Times would follow Connie Chung's journalism."

Defending the integrity of his publication and backing his reporter, Times editor Andrew Rosenthal said that Burros "kept a very careful account of what was on the record. These quotes were on the record, which is why we put them in the newspaper." He further emphasized his paper's principles by saying that the reporter had even called back the White House to check whether a particular quote could be used under the ground rules. However, it was reported that a White House official called the Times to complain about the alleged breach of the rules.

The tricks of the trade

Whether it's the esteemed New York Times or London's notorious News of the World, such controversies will inevitably occur.