In conversation with Stefan Sagmeister and Lou Reed: Take a Walk on the Wild Side

Graphis, May/Jun 2002

In Conversation with Stefan Sagmeister and Lou Reed: Take a Walk on the Wild Side Portrait by Timothy Greenfield-Sanders The phone rang: "Hey this is Lou Reed. I saw your CD covers. Can I come over?" When Sagmeister received the call on a warm September day in 1995, he was afraid it might be a joke. The friendship between these two artists, who in their own way have made both music and type rock, has produced some of the most arresting graphics in music: from CD packaging for Set the Twilight Reeling and Ecstasy to Pass Thru Fire-a book of collected lyrics-and The Modern Dance music video. * A passion for rock and roll is obviously their common ground, but they also share similar work processes and philosophies. Since he opened his New York Studio in 1993, Sagmeister (feature in Graphis Issue 303) has gained the reputation of an agitator while still being granted official accolades from the design community. His most provocative posters for the A.I.G.A. conferences, with body parts and decapitated animal heads will remain in the annals of graphic design history. * While the Austrian-born designer has created successful music graphic for such groups as The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith and David Byrne, Lou Reed hardly needs introduction. The protege of Andy Warhol and founder of The Velvet Underground has since collected many honors, while "always staying on the outside," as he puts it. Turning into a reflective poet-rocker, Reed has expanded his creative endeavors to recent collaborations with director Robert Wilson and his partner in life, Laurie Anderson. * Reflecting on Stefan Sagmeister's year without clients, and discussing his most recent book Made You Look, the two luminaries met at Reed's West Village loft one beautiful morning just before the September 11th attacks.

Lou Reed: How long have you been doing graphic design?

Sagmeister: Well, for about 20 years now.

Lou Reed: Where did you study? Did you go to school?

Sagmeister: In Vienna, at the University for Applied Arts. That's also the same school that wouldn't take Hitler. You know, Hitler was an art student and wanted to become a painter.

Lou Reed: And they rejected him? So you went to one place in Austria where one could just say, `Good for you, Stefan!'

Sagmeister: Well, of course. If they had taken him, maybe it would have saved us World War II, who knows? Instead, we would just have another mediocre artist, that's all.

Lou Reed: You mean graphic artist! [laugh] Honestly, I never thought of the graphic arts as something that could save the world of politics, maybe you do... When did you start?

Sagmeister: I was 19-20. In Austria, you finish high school at 18. The first time around they wouldn't take me either. In the art school, there were about 300 applicants for 10 places. It takes 4 years to complete university, if you do it fast. Although since universities are free, nobody's really graduating in the minimum amount of time.

Lou Reed: How does the selection happen? Do they go by grades? Do you have to submit work?

Sagmeister: No, you go for a three-day examination. You bring your portfolio and then on Day I you draw your hand for 3 hours. Then for the next 3 hours, you draw your neighbor who is also there drawing. And then for the next 3 hours you draw a chair set on a table. It goes on for 3 days like that.

Lou Reed: So draftsmanship is essential to your training?

Sagmeister: We had a very old-fashioned professor. His focus was on the ability to draw objects. It was the foundation course and he wouldn't let anybody in without that particular skill. In the year in between I was accepted, I did nature studies everyday. It's a learnable skill.

Lou Reed: Oh, not for me, it wouldn't be! My partner Laurie Anderson told me I could draw. Because I've always admired R. Crumb-he's a terrific draftsman, when he wants to be. Laurie is too. She said, `You can draw, draw an airplane.' So I drew this pathetic airplane. And she said, `There you go! Now just practice it.' Believe me, when they say `He can't draw a straight line,' they're talking about me. I'm made for computer art, where you can disguise all of that.

Sagmeister: But, I think that if you had the desire to draw, you could learn it.

Lou Reed: Well, it's like in music. If you had a desire to learn to play, you sure could, up to a point. You could certainly learn three chords and do a pop song. It's a great democracy. About that, I feel the way that you feel about drawing. But at a certain point, desire won't get you there.

Sagmeister: In my case I have to admit that I was never really interested in drawing per se. It was always just a means to an end. At school, I was one of the very few among our students who really wanted to do graphics.

Lou Reed: See, I think that the earlier you know, the bigger jump you have on absolutely everybody else. It's a big advantage. Because, you do pick up things along the way. If you have a five-year jump on somebody, that's a five-year jump. What's an all-purpose microphone? What's an automatic level control? What headphones aren't going to dissolve in front of you? What machine won't blow up? You see, I didn't study music, I just learned in a bar. I started out on classical piano but I dropped. On the day I heard rock, that was the end of it. I made my first record when I was 14. I lived in bars, all through high school, all through college. I was always the youngest then. So none of this other stuff is any big deal to me. So that's my background, even though I have a B.A. in English. But I was just a guitar player. I didn't move to the front for a while. That took conniving. To get to the front, I had to write the stuff. That was the only way I would get up there, because it wouldn't be the sound of my voice that would accomplish that one.